Episode 150
Jason Pamer is the producer and co-writer of the award-winning documentary on sex trafficking, Rape For Profit, recently landing in the top 50 films on iTunes. Jason studied acting under an Emmy award-winning director at the Center for Creative Media.
In cooperation with Unearthed, Jason is currently working on a new film project: Hearts of Men. In our interview Jason tells us about this upcoming film and what makes it unique.
Show Notes:
0:45 – What is the film, Rape for Profit and why did you make it?
3:25 – How did Rape for Profit lead to the creation of this new film, Hearts of Men?
7:10 – What makes this film unique when it comes to dealing with the problem of pornography addiction, both in its content and its format?
18:03 – How can the church get people excited about the film?
Luke… it’s not just one podcast, I don’t seem to be able to download anymore more of these podcast!
What should I do Please…
Hi, I’m sorry, but for the time, our podcasts are no longer available.
Andrew. In response to saying women should be accountable for their choosing to do porn, you said: “I’ve heard this an unending amount of times from men responding to articles and podcasts.”
Well, maybe you should start paying attention what these men are saying instead of dismissing their thoughts and saying it is a man’s lust that is the problem. After all, if so many men are saying this, then it is a valid thought. They are literally telling you a major cause and you are just ignoring it.
To Rescue Men?
Considering the fact that I have struggled with porn most of my life, I certainly am not dismissing their thoughts. What I am realizing is that they don’t want to take responsibility that the problem of looking at porn is their problem. Just because these women leave an avenue for men to look at them doesn’t mean we MUST do it. We stay away from the stuff that tempts us. It’s like the alcoholic blaming bars for their drinking problem. And then blaming the bar owner for their problem. If the bar wasn’t there they would just buy their alcohol from someone else. It wouldn’t eliminate alcoholics. These men saying this are justifying their actions by pointing fingers at the women. Yet if all porn would cease to exist they would pursue their sin anyway. They wouldn’t all of a sudden become pure and blameless.
Sorry, Luke for not getting back to you sooner. I wrote this post and forgot I wrote it and didn’t look back at it. Here is what I would like to see Covenant Eyes do. Write one article that literally says: “Women stop doing porn and using sex to get what you want.” See what happens — I am sure, if it is seen widely enough, you will get backlash from feminists out there because no woman could be the cause of her own problems in America.
As a whole, I think Covenant Eyes does a great job with their blogs, but I am very serious when I say that the problem will never get better until we hold women accountable, which of course, in America, we never do. Look at Hope Solo. Clear cut case of domestic abuse. The same as Ray Rice. Ray Rice loses his career, his money, and has a litany of problems. Hope Solo? She is playing for America, has made money off the whole issue, and every media outlet out there is spinning it so that she doesn’t look like an abuser.
I really believe strongly in this. Christians are supposed to be about honesty and truth right? Well, the truth is women are CAUSING a lot of these problems. The devils used temptation throughout the bible and instead of one princess, who is a temptress, that caused John to lose his head; the devil has created a world where there are thousands of princesses that use temptation and that temptation is just a sexy selfie away. I mean really look at it. It is not even the professional women who use sex to get what they want — the hookers, the strippers, the models, the webcam girls, the bikini contest women, and even the corporate woman who dresses sexy to rise through the ranks. It is girls in high school who are sending out selfie after selfie. Often, those selfies are nude. What is that really? Temptation and manipulation and it all starts with a woman making a conscious decision to take the selfie and hit send.
Look at Andrew’s comment above. In response to saying women should be accountable for their choosing to do porn, he said: “I’ve heard this an unending amount of times from men responding to articles and podcasts.” Well, maybe people should start paying attention what these men are saying instead of dismissing their thoughts and saying it is a man’s lust that is the problem. No — the men are making very legitimate statements that is addressing a very real cause of the problem. Andrew’s thought process is akin to a doctor selectively ignoring causes of a very real problem.
Thanks for the thoughts.
While I appreciate the article idea, I’m trying to think of how to write it in such a way that it avoids needless controversy and has some real cogent things to say.
Here’s what we do write about that is in the same vein. We criticize authors of erotica for passing off their smut as seasoned literature. We speak about industry giants like Jenna Jameson and the insidious message they tell about the virtues of pornography. We interview ex-porn stars about how and why they left the industry for a more fulfilling life in Christ. We review best-selling books that talk about the illusion painted by women in the industry. We try to label the work of porn industry for what it really is: prostitution.
I don’t disagree that people (not just women) need to be held accountable for making porn, but I’m curious what you feel is the best way to go about doing that as a society. When we talk of accountability around here, generally we speak of it in the sense of something voluntary: people choosing to make themselves accountable for the betterment of themselves and their families. This is, by in large, our audience. What would be a constructive way for us to hold men and women in the industry accountable for their actions?
In response to Xavier:
“Women are responders by nature” Yeah, I figured I wouldn’t be able to slip that comment by you…LOL. So where did I get that from? The bible and experience in life. The bible says, “Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church”. We are responders to the love that Christ showed us on the cross. Our work as Christ-followers is to pass on the love that he showed us. That is why we husbands are the ones primarily responsible for the well-being of the relationship. We also have the primary authority. (Primary responsibility assumes primary authority. You can’t have one without the other.)
Christ loved us while we were still sinners. This statement carries major implications for how we are to be to are wives. And I still contend that the vast majority of wives will respond positively to Christ’s love or a husband’s love.
I understand your feelings about feminists today. In all the ones I see writing and speaking, they are very deceptive…speaking half-truths and not being held accountable. However, I don’t see how that affects my marriage. My wife and I can control what happens in our marriage and not have to be influenced by that kind of thinking. We can be thankful that we can have a truly biblical view of marriage and be able to live it out.
Ya know, Andrew, despite myself I gotta say I agree with you on most everything you said… okay, okay, with everything you said (and I did comb the whole thing looking for something objectionable)..! Bah! Humbug! ;)
Nah, you spoke truth, bro. And the adage of “with authority comes responsibility” is one long held by me (in fact, the reverse helped lose me an Asst. Manager’s job once because the owner of the business wanted me to take on a load of responsibility without entrusting me with the authority to go along with it; I complained in my usual frank manner, and a few days later found myself as free as a bird in May. Whatever. Good riddance. TO THEM. Ha!)
Anyway, your piece got me to thinking… and I remembered that a few relationships before Grumpy (my affectionate handle for you-know-who), I was living with someone (so it was promiscuous, so I was pretty worldly, all right??), and I once blew my top at her over some petty oversight. Wonder what it was now, but I think she misplaced something or forgot some silly little thing. Girl was only nineteen, and I – kinda older – was already risin’ in the ranks at work.
Well, in a petulant peeve, the lord of the realm decided to sleep it off so he wouldn’t have to lay eyes on the wayward lass. When I awoke, a saw a letter on my desk , neatly addressed to me. A Dear John missive? A laundry list of complaints? Nay. As I read, I felt myself choking back something in my throat, my heart falling to my gut, tears forming in my dumbstruck mind. That lovely young girl had written something to this effect:
“I don’t know what I going to do. (She was a foreigner.) I look at you sleeping and I think: he is my man, my angel, how he look so sweet. And I so stupid, I crazy, too careless. How I don’t think how make you happy? I think and think and you so nice to me many times, and I don’t want make you angry. Sorry! Sorry, my love, my darling! Forgive me! I do better next time. I love you.” (Cue Tammy’s “Stand by Your Man”.)
For a moment, I didn’t know what to say except to fiercely curse myself silently, embrace her ever so gently and then burst out with: “NO, NO, S.! I don’t deserve any of that! Please forgive ME! I’m sorry I was so mad, oh, my… (ok – let’s not get too maudlin here)..! I’m the crazy one, the fool (don’t quote me now, folks), and you – you’re wonderful!”
“You no like my letter?”
“No, I mean, yes, I LOVE your letter – well, parts of it.” And I proceeded to strike out with a pen all the negative things she had written about herself, leaving only the nice ones, and promising to treasure the letter until… well, I don’t remember what happened to it now. (Grumpy would’ve torched it, anyway, if she’d found it.)
Point is, though, Andrew, that I realize now that, if I hadn’t been such an entitled, immature idiot (I didn’t mend my ways until it was too late), and instead had cherished and nurtured the devotion that S. had for me, who knows how she would have responded? Now, I’m in a love-hate marriage (guess that much has shown). And as for that pretty foreign girl? I discovered that she’s married to a rich foreign dude, has two lovely little girls, has travelled widely, and most likely has forgotten me. (Cue Conway’s “Don’t Cry Joni”.)
Dude, I know what yer gonna say: Xavier, it’s too late now to salvage what’s no longer there. Quit being a dork with Grumpy (well, you won’t call her that, hah!) and don’t mess up this chance you have now, ‘cause infinitely more is ridin’ on it, now that you know the gospel and are wedded before God and man. I’m prayin’ for ya.
Hey, thanks, man. And what does all this have to do with pornography? Nothing, but it’s a true story and I hope you all were entertained. Thank you.
t poliI agree completely with the comment above. I also think it is very well composed and succinctly expressed. One problem, of course, is that in the current politically correct climate, it is hard to find a place to freely express such views, even though they are true.
Well first off women could stop doing porn. Tons of jobs out there. Tons of them. Women use sex to get what they want from the time they are 14 on up. Maybe we can teach women not to do this? Teach them not to talk selfies and flaunt their sexuality at the drop of a hat?
Also, few women do what is said in the bible. No one ever holds women accountable. Everyone wants to tell men to follow the bible. They quote scripture after scripture to illustrate how men aren’t following the bible. But few women follow the bible. You will be labeled a misogynist if you hold women to biblical standards.
Until we hold women accountable, this problem never goes away. Anyone, who thinks it will, is simply living in a dream world. Also, let’s get brutally honest. Obesity is driving people to porn. Why would I want to date an overweight woman, who will demand everything of me, and complain constantly like American women do. Then if I do marry her, she will gain more weight, the sex will stop, and if we get divorced, I lose everything? Now how exactly is that going to benefit me in any way?
A few comments to “Rescue Men?”
“Well first women could stop doing porn”
– I’ve heard this an unending amount of times from men responding to articles and podcasts. Here is the basic facts. Porn is an industry. For an industry to work you need both supply and demand. You can’t have one w/out the other and expect it to work. The vast majority of pornography is men looking at women.The supply is women willing (or forced) to pose naked. The demand is men with lust in their hearts. It takes both self-seeking sides to allow this industry to work. As a man, I can’t wait until all women stop posing in these pictures and videos. Even if they would, does the lust in my heart magically disappear? No, I’ve still got the same problem as before. I will just find other avenues to seek this. So even if we hold women accountable as you say, the problem still doesn’t go away. I will just have to find something else to blame it on.
“Obesity is driving people to porn.”
-So the key to stopping the lust in a man’s heart is all women go on a weight loss program and get physically fit. All that would mean is that all these women walking down the street are even more attractive than before. Can’t really see how that would solve the lust problem in a man’s heart.
We men do need to realize one thing: Women are responders by nature. If a man shows her true love, the vast majority will respond likewise. If they aren’t treated with love, it makes it extremely difficult for them to show respect to their husband. Seeing that you have this very low view of women, it makes me wonder how you have treated women. I think the last sentence in your last paragraph gives me an understanding of who you are looking out for.
The reason we don’t focus on what women do is because they are not the root cause of our addictions. They’re actions certianly can be far from helpful as we seek to break the cycle of addiction, but the choice is still ours. Therefore, we must accept responsibility and humbly seek God’s forgiveness. As we restore our relationship with Him the pull of porn will diminish, but that will never happen as long as we blame others for our actions. When you see a women dressed provokatively, take a moment to pray for her rather than fanatsize about her. Developing these types of habits will help you break the cycle of addiction.
Thanks for your thoughts. Let me see if I can respond to each of them.
1. I agree women should stop making porn (just as men should stop making porn).
2. I disagree that all women use sex to get what they want, but let’s just assume for the moment that your over-generalization is correct. Should we teach women (and men) they should not use sexual prowess to influence others? Sure. I believe this is what many faithful churches are attempting to do all over the world: showing women (and men) there is a better way than simply catering to a culture that worships sex.
3. You said “few women do what is said in the bible.” I would go further and say no women completely obey the Bible—and no men completely obey it either. To say no one ever holds women accountable is patently false. For example: think of all the women who use Covenant Eyes so they don’t look at porn. They have accountability partners who hold them to tact on the kind of women they really want to be. And this is just a small subset of women in the world. There are many women who engage in all manner of formal and informal accountability for many issues.
4. You said, “You will be labeled a misogynist if you hold women to biblical standards.” I’m sure this is true in many circles, and it is unfortunate.
Can I ask you a personal question? The manner of your comment suggests to me that you believe we as a company don’t want to hold women accountable. Perhaps I’m reading between the lines something that simply isn’t there. Can you clarify?
“We men do need to realize one thing: Women are responders by nature. If a man shows her true love, the vast majority will respond likewise. If they aren’t treated with love, it makes it extremely difficult for them to show respect to their husband.”
ANDREW, that second clause in your first sentence… Where’d you get THAT from?? Seriously? Anyway, you think we could maybe switch the genders around in the above series of categorical statements and they would still hold true? Eh, Andrew? :)
I’m with you on the contents of your formidable paragraph or two that precede the above, though. Well done there.
And, PATRICK, don’t be cutting women so much slack, man; I agree that we musn’t pass the buck for lust or for anything else, but not “focus(ing) on what women do” fails to address the wider set of factors that affect the marital situation and which may well complicate the porn addict’s rehabilitation.
Consider, monsieur: some women embark into matrimony toting mucho mental and emotional baggage of their own, their egos on eggshells, expectations as unrealistic as those of the grinning groom. Am I right or am I right, Patrick?
Then, what happens? That fool (the male, in this case) gives vent to the sneaky little habits he groomed before he became a bridegroom, overlooking the fact that he’s no longer in his bachelor pad and that his new wife might be on the prowl. And then, wham! He becomes the latest statistic for the likes of Covenant Eyes.
But here’s the rub: amid all the weeping and recriminations, apologizing and crossin’ my heart and hopin’ stuff, the Mrs. finds that her own disturbing little foibles are completely passed over while well-deserved censure falls on her horny hubby’s head. As the aggrieved partner, her flaws, some of which might arguably be harmful to the marriage also, are ignored as the attention centers on the male component of the relationship.
Thus, we have a lotta static that ultimately zeroes in on the guy as a broken wheel, badly in need of fixin’ (true), but of the missus… nada. She is the innocent victim of that miscreant of a mate of hers. And, I daresay, the object of – get this, y’all – what I believe is an EXAGGERATED amount of sympathy in the whole debacle. Well… there’s that, cobber.
As for my childhood friend, LUKE, he’s being his usual cogent self.