Recently we received a comment from a Linux user who wanted to know why we have not developed Covenant Eyes accountability software for Linux operating systems. (To fully appreciate the force of his complaint, you can read his reply on one of our posts.) I’ve pasted my full message to him below. I would love to hear feedback about this, especially from any Linux users who would care to comment. We invite the dialogue.
I’ve finished speaking with both our president and our VP of Technology about your complaint. I also notice that you had some email correspondence with our president back in November about this issue.
Thank you for voicing your complaint. I certainly want to take the time to respond as clearly as possible so there is no misunderstanding. We recognize the growing popularity of Linux, and this is a question we encounter from time to time.
First, thank you for your membership with us, but as far as I know we do not advertise the monitoring of every operating system, but only those that run on Windows or Mac platforms. Were you aware of this before you signed up for Covenant Eyes? If you feel our website or literature is not clear about this, please let us know where we have failed to communicate this clearly so we can clear it up immediately.
Years ago, back when we did not have a filter software product, we were more than eager to refer our members to filters that we thought were the best on the market. We did this because we care very much about the plague of pornography online, regardless of how many members we have or who chooses another product over our own. Here is a list of Linux Internet accountability programs and filters. We have not fully tested the value, accuracy, or stability of these programs, but I sincerely hope this will put a plug in this problem for you. I’m sure, if the demand for CE in the Linux community is as ubiquitous as you say it is, this or a similar program is being utilized and improved by Linux users.
To answer your question, simply releasing our code for open source would not be the only thing required to build a version of CE for Linux. We also write all of our own interfaces among our account management system, Accountability Reports, web rating system, and the communication between our servers and Windows LSP or Mac’s kernel. To allow others access to this information would pose a huge security risk for us and our members. If you have any suggestions for how we might work around these concerns, please let us know.
As our president communicated to you in a previous email, we do not want to do anything half-baked, and it would take a sizable amount of resources to develop a version of CE for Linux that would be as uncircumventable by the average Linux user. Right now our main priority is improving the current programs we have for the two most popular operating systems (Windows and Mac). We get many, many more requests from family men such as yourself for other programs (i.e. a Mac filter, CE for the iPhone, Windows Mobile, the Blackberry, or the Android Phone) than we do from those who fear using Linux as a circumvention method. Try as we might to “be all things to all platforms,” this is not within our means right now. I respectfully ask you to not demand something of us that isn’t feasible at this time.
I would like to reiterate we are very much concerned about the accessibility of pornography online. As someone who has been addicted to pornography in the past I can all too easily sympathize. However, to judge our seriousness about this issue based on our lack of a product for the Linux platform is unfair. It would not be right of me to assume that other software providers are apathetic about pornography because they lacked a certain product but had others. I’m sure you would agree, it is impossible to judge the hearts of the people involved without knowing them. Plus, with the rising use of online mobile devices, and the creation of many porn sites specifically geared for these devices, we see it as a high priority to devote more of our resources to the creation of CE for these devices.
Lastly, we would not be at all interested in suing you if you inform the Internet community about what we have said concerning this issue. As you can see I quickly published your comment on this blog. We are very interested in hearing the complaints and problems of our members. In fact, you are probably right about it being high time for us to add a post about Linux on this blog. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
On a personal note, I can see that this is incredibly frustrating to you, and I would love to be able to tell you that we are working on this project. I would probably be frustrated as well. This is why I highly encourage you to try one of these Linux Internet accountability or filtering programs and let us know how you feel about it. We will be more than happy to recommend programs to Linux users if it is of a high caliber. And again, if you have any suggestions about how we can safely contribute to an open source project that can benefit Linux users, please let us know. We would be eager to hear your thoughts.
Respectfully,
Luke Gilkerson
Internet Community Manager
CovenantEyes.com
We use Dan’s Guardian for our son’s Linux installation. It does not do accountability reports, but it has a very effective filter.
I would like to say that if you run Linux in a virtual machine in Virtual Box, and set the interface to NAT, and setup these two commands the filtering and accountability both work in Linux.
VBoxManage modifyvm “VM name” –natdnshostresolver1 on
VBoxManage modifyvm “VM name” –natdnsproxy1 on
That is a really great suggestion! The only possible downside I can see to this is that a person knowledgeable enough to make these configurations could, in a moment of struggle, remove them. At the same time, a person that needs to be running a Linux VM could benefit from this since they will be running Linux anyway.
Seriously, great suggestion.
A Linux version would be great. I’d like to put Linux on an old laptop for family at home but hesitate to do so because of the lack of CE support for the operating system.
As usual, you guys have handled in a very reasonable way a request given in a very unreasonable way and attitude. I continue to be impressed by the candor, attitude and quality of service you offer. Thank you for all you do! I look forward to the Mac Filter whenever it comes (I understand the demand is less) and other new developments as they come along.
Not only is Linux a small demographic, it’s also tech-savvy, tends to experiment with the machines, and is often averse to non-Free software. I can’t imagine it would be profitable for CE to enter that market.
For my Linux machine, I have a cron job that takes screenshots at random intervals and makes them available elsewhere for my wife to review.
I would just like to say the linux demographic is actually quite large, ignoring it being dominanat in webservers supercomputers and phones to name a few. On the pc it has over 30million users and not many alternatives to compete with. On pay what you want games the average linux user spends more than windows or mac. As a linux us I would like to say we do not hate paid software, though we do resist not being alowed to use or modify as we wish software we purchase. Most the comunity is happy to make the exception and resistance comes from most open alternatives being more stable and well maintained. Googles own android is a linux. While I would not accuse you of not being serious about your work I cannot switch off linux and while I am escaping porn and helping a friend who slipped further We could really use this tool. As far as making it hard to remove in linux I don’t care if you make a distro that is hard to run an uncustomary version of the Ubuntu kernel and that kernel depending on the monitoring tools. And open sourcing tools is such a security issues. And yes half of us are techsavy which means you might have to listen to and fix exploits we report.
Personally, I would LOVE for their to be a Linux version of Covenant Eyes. The lack of CE for Linux is about the only thing keeping me from switching to Ubuntu, so I guess Steve Ballmer thanks you for my continued patronage of Microsoft…
That said, I can understand why it’d be very much a “niche market” to try and penetrate. But if and when you ever get finished with all the other things you listed that you have on your plate first, here’s at least one customer who’d be very happy to have a Linux version of CE.
First off, let me say that I agree with Arlen, and I commend you and your company’s response.
I work for a software company in an unrelated field that shares your generosity of offering free new development for users based on their needs and desire. Seeing it from both sides, I do want to let you know that it deeply appreciated.
While it would be nice for those users, I don’t personally believe that Linux would be worth useful to a large majority of your client base.
While there may be one of a tiny minority who absolutely needs Linux on their machines (for development or applications testing perhaps), most consumers have a choice when selecting their machines. If they wish to use your product, they will choose a machine with Windows or the Mac OS. Or if necessary, utilize some of the creative options mentioned here.
Greetings,
I am a long time CE subscriber, Linux, Windows, and Mac user and work on DSL networks for a living.
I realize that I may be in the minority, but currently in my home, I don’t have a Windows machine, I have three Linux boxes and a Mac, two of the Linux boxes are netbooks.
I truly wish that it were possible for CE to come up with a product for Linux, although I understand why that isn’t practical.
I think that as netbooks become more common place, and with Windows 7 on the horizon that we will certainly see a growing interest in Linux, especially because of how much less prone it is to malware, but I’m not naive enough to believe it’s going challenge Windows as a dominant consumer OS in the near future.
I’ve encouraged a number of people with older computers to install Linux, and will now be able to encourage them to use Accountability Pal. I’m very grateful for Luke’s suggestion, this isn’t a product I’d seen before.
Having said all that, I think it’s a shame that Mr. Bayer feels the need to post in the way that he did. I understand the sentiment and his frustration, but think there are much more mature ways to express it, and I too agree with what Arlen shared.
Grace and peace.
Being a full-time Ubuntu user has meant getting creative in finding alternatives to the various windows software I have used in the past. Fortunately, long before I switched to Ubuntu, I cleared my machine of most of my proprietary software packages, and replaced them with open source software packages. My switch to ubuntu meant I could keep most of those, with only a very few exceptions that I am still looking for good alternatives to.
One solution I have found to some packages is using them with Wine, or even PlayOnLinux for the more difficult ones. I will test the trial of CE out on Wine, and also will test Accountability Pal, and will report back on my findings. I also have suffered under the affliction of pornography and lust for too long, and am willing to make the effort to seek His will for me in regards to keeping myself safe, to His glory.
God bless,
Darren Crook
Here is what I emailed to Covenant Eyes yesterday:
“Hi, Covenant Eyes staff,
Nice to see you’ve ported Covenant Eyes to Windows Mobile (and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear about an iPhone version in the works).
However, people do use operating systems other than Windows and Mac OSX. Such as Linux. Some of us Linux users are interested in getting some good accountability software in the style of Covenant Eyes made for Linux. In fact, Net Responsibility[http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=550287] is a good piece of work in this direction. Some of us think that it would be great if we could submit logged information to Covenant Eyes servers (if we have an account, of course) so we could take advantage of your algorithms and generated reports. I know you want to keep the system from being circumvented, but I think even if we can’t make it airtight, such a volutary project seems a good endevor to me.
So, what we would need for such a thing to happen is technical information on how Covenant Eyes sends information to your servers, so we could implement the protocol in a open source program. On behalf of the Christian linux/unix using community, I ask you to please consider my request.
Feel free to take a look through the aforementioned thread[http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=550287] on Ubuntu Forums.
Regards,
Nathaniel Robertson”
A customer service representative wrote me back and pointed me to this post. Here is what I have to say after reading all this:
I do not think that releasing the source code would be the solution. Flaws in the program allowing some sort of circumvention could be found this way – and possibly custom versions of CE could be built that would allow for filtering out certain URI’s… other problems are probably waiting in the wings, too. This is not the solution.
Since you have asked, (“If you have any suggestions for how we might work around these concerns, please let us know.”) I think the best solution at the present would be something in the order of what others on Ubuntu Forums and I have suggested: releasing enough technical information to allow a third party program such as Net Responsibility (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=550287) to submit logs to Covenant Eyes servers (with a valid payed account, of course) so that Covenant Eyes filtering algorithms, email summaries, and whatnot could be used.
Like I said in the email, maybe it’s not airtight, but it’s a lot better than nothing. Especially when you can, like Jeff Bayer said, just boot up Linux and have nothing to track you. Unless CE is in the very BIOS or hardware of the computer, guaranteed logging is not possible. So we should do what we can.
I personally think something exactly like CE would be a little too tight and invasive for the Linux community. If Covenant Eyes gets screwed up somehow on my Linux install and therefore cuts off my internet, I would be frustrated. And as another note, Accountability Pal, which Gilkerson recommended, has not been updated since 2004.
So, all in all, who agrees with me (on any point)? Any more ideas?
I can understand why a small company like CE has not developed a Linux/Unix version YET, but I think it should be a priority to pursue as soon as possible.
(In fact, it seems like you should be halfway there, with the version for Mac OSX (since OSX is based on BSD, another UNIX clone like Linux).
The LINUX-based devices are rapidly becoming more mainstream. The Google Android OS is built on Linux and is already available. Many netbooks run Linux.
Here are a couple of new Linux-based products expected to come out in July 2009 that are getting a lot of buzz online:
TouchBook from AlwaysInnovating.com
(a Linux-based netbook/slate with 8.9″ touchscreen.
It converts to a slate or tablet by removing the keyboard. )
CrunchPad (www.CrunchPad.com)
(touchscreen slate with 12″ screen).
Both of devices will be available for under $300, which will broaden their appeal.
I was compelled to write this before I got to reading Nathaniel’s post, but I think we are thinking somewhat alike.
Also. I’m not an actual Linux programmer myself, but I worked closely with them in the past, and done a fair amount of reading.
—————————————————————–
The Linux accountability program you mentioned, Accountability Pal, was never finished, and is not being actively developed.
Another program that was never finished was “Angel Accountability” (also available on SourceForge.net).
In your original response to Mr. Beyer, you wrote “if you have any suggestions about how we can safely contribute to an open source project that can benefit Linux users, please let us know. We would be eager to hear your thoughts.”
Volunteer Linux programmers could develop a Linux clone of all the user interface-portions (basically recreating what is already visible to the user in Windows or OSX). They could also address any other OS-specific parts. As a token of thanks, each contributor could receive free service for a year, or something. They could even sign non-disclosure agreements if necessary. (Open source die-hards might balk at that, plus it might make the work harder, because they couldn’t use any open-source components without triggering the GPL.) But non-disclosure agreements should not be necessary, because they would not need to see the top-secret core (that talks to the CE servers), only re-creating the parts they can see anyway.
The core or kernel or driver (or whatever) could be a binary “black box” ported from Mac or Windows. It may also require a translation layer or wrapper if the UI programmers guessed wrong about what the black box does, or to allow you to actually use the same core used on the Mac or Windows. The more you divulge up front, the less you have to translate later.
Point is to reduce the amount of Linux code CE staff has to do, since you apparently don’t have that expertise.
You also wrote: “We also write all of our own interfaces among our Member Center, Accountability Reports, web rating system, and the communication between our servers and Windows LSP or Mac’s kernel.”
I don’t see why any of this would need to change. Certainly nothing at the server end. Even the COMMUNICATION could ( & should) be the same (i.e., using the same protocol or “language”). The only thing different is that the client is a Linux client. And that could be using the same core as under Windows or Mac. Have you considered using WINE? (You can find it on SourceForge.net.)
I would think that some sort of “software portability” structure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porting) like this would be essential, because there are so many flavors of UNIX, BSD, Linux, OSX, Android, Red Hat, SuSE, Ubuntu, etc. And nowadays, most people who need a special OS for something base it on some version of these.
If the user interface and other OS-specific portions are open-source, then the community can take care of porting it to the Linux flavor of the month, or to the hot new Android device, etc. This strategy could get you pretty close to having a version available on many if not most of the new innovative devices to come in the foreseeable future.
The only challenge for CE is to decide where to draw the line between closed & open. As much as possible, everything on the closed side should be the same as in Windows or Mac, except of course for the translation layer if any. [In the case of Nathaniel’s suggestion above, you would be drawing the line at the communication step.
Everything at the server is closed, everything at the client is open. I suspect that might be revealing too much, but I’m no expert.]
If you want a few precedents, consider the video card drivers, for starters. Every Linux distribution (like RedHat, SuSE, Ubuntu, etc.) is actually a collection of many programs, of which the Linux kernel is only one. Most of the other programs included are also open-source, but many distributions also ship with proprietary, closed-source binaries of things like drivers for popular video cards, etc. If your Linux version is too “pure open-source” to include closed-source drivers, you can often download the binary Linux driver from the video card manufacturer’s website & install it yourself. The open source GUI (usually Xfree86) handles the communication between the closed binary video driver and the rest of the system.
Finally: Accountability Pal for Covenant Eyes, anyone?
Maybe you could even use that as a starting point. (I haven’t even bothered to look at it myself since it is pre-alpha.)
“Finally # 2:” Someone mentioned that Linux users are more technical. Definitely true in the past, but it is starting to change with the Linux-based netbooks & other new devices.
Also, the old traditional Linux users are also more accustomed to getting by with less hand-holding from the Tech Support department. Many companies do not officially support Linux to the same extent as Win or Mac, but they make binary drivers available for “use at your own risk”, and then refer people to user forums as the primary source of tech support.
So don’t let fear of having to provide support deter you from trying. As indicated by most of the responses above, you’ve got a lot of loyal, appreciative, and even supportive customers who are willing to meet you halfway.
Well, I guess that’s one way to celebrate the 4th of July:
trying to become simultaneosuly LIBERATED from porn
& INDEPENDENT of Microsoft.
(Currently, it’s choose one or the other)
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY of my long post above:
CE should provide a “protocol” that describes how to do one of the following:
1. Talk to CE servers directly
2. Talk to a closed binary “black box driver” on the Linux system that is provided by CE (possibly a port from Win or Mac, probably Mac).
The protocol could be provided on an open or closed basis.
If closed, CE would have to be more involved in recruiting programmers for each port to a new OS (new Linux version, etc.). If open, then CE could just let the ports happen.
The protocol would basically describe how to communicate across the line between closed and open.
That line should be carefully and strategically drawn to get the job done without revealing too much, and also so that the protocol would be OS neutral.
That way, the same protocol could be used for every new open-source OS that comes along, whether its OS XI, a new modification of Linux or Android, or whatever.
@rodneyp: You sound savvy enough. Covenant Eyes is saying that they don’t have the resources to dedicate to it right now, with other issues they are dealing with for the great majority, so why don’t you kick it off?
My main machine is now linux and my family likes it. I would love there to be a CE for linux as this is the only software I am unable to find for my system.
I’m really saddened by the angry email from the Linux guy…some of us are more understanding. I personally use a combination of squid, dansguardian, calamaris and firewall redirection on my own laptop when I’m booted to linux, and CE when I’m in Windows. I teach Linux, so I kind of have to have it around. Unfortunately, as an admin worth his salt knows, ANY CE-like solution for Linux will ALWAYS have the vulnerability that anyone with root privileges can turn it off.
That’s why being in real-life recovery groups that focus on Jesus Christ are the most important thing you can do to get off pr0n. CE and other, similar software will always be just a supplement to that.
Anyhow, as someone posted above, a dansguardian-based solution can be a great solution to protect your family. I’ve written a very basic shell script that, if run with root privileges, will help someone set up a basic dansguardian filter on a Fedora system, along with basic e-mail reporting. Of course, anyone who knows what they’re doing could use it as a starting point to customize it or set it up on ubuntu or the like. If you’d like a copy, email me: andrew.vandever (the obligatory at symbol) gmail.com.
@theophilus
Yeah, he wasn’t really being fair. They haven’t said they’re going to support Covenant Eyes, so he can’t really blame them for anything. Not that it wouldn’t be nice to see some talk about it, which this whole thing has opened up.
Anyway, I’m not into pr0n and never really have been, but my parents want to know where I go, so I want to honor that.
Emailing you.
The original person’s remarks are indicative of a heavy entitlement mentality. Instead of thanking CE for the products they do offer, he bashes them for not offering them on every single OS available. I’m no more entitled to CE on Linux than I am yellow ketchup.
Currently my work Linux box uses a proxy server that I have running on a Windows machine, which has CE. However, this is not a perfect solution, as I simply can choose not to use the proxy. At the risk of turning this into a tech support forum, does anyone know how I can “force” the Linux box to use this proxy server?
BTW, Chance, if you’re still around, you should ask about that on superuser.com. If it’s possible, people there will probably know how.
I use Linux as my main OS, and it would be great to have something like CE for Linux. As has been pointed out, it would probably be more difficult to develop a comprehensive solution, since the added freedom and power of Linux makes it harder to nail down a solution. But I would definitely welcome a Linux effort.
OpenDNS is a pretty easy solution, though it’s not at the same level as CE.
I’d also be keen for a linux port, or CE allowing the community to develop something akin to what RodneyP has suggested and/or the other suggestions that would allow CE to be easily ported the next great new electronic device (with a screen of course!) to hit the market. Sounds like it’s just good economic sense too.
I use Ubuntu as my Linux distro, and have tried to use Wine to run CE. Only problem is, every ten seconds CE pops up a message saying that it has detected that it’s files have been deleted and that it is going to reboot the computer. It can’t reboot though, I guess because it doesn’t know how to reboot a Linux machine.
Either way, I found using CE on Wine a real pain, not really workable at all.
I am trying to build a home web/email/contacts/calendar server on Linux just because it is all free and Linux/Apache is the number one Web server. I use Windows and CE on my Laptop. I understand the issue centers around $$$ and time but I would love to see CE for Linux.
Keep up the good work.
It would really make the most sense if you guys would open up your protocol for sending logs to your servers. It seems like the real power (and thus, the most valuable intellectual property to you) of covenant eyes lies in all the processing done servier-side to analyze all that data. And just as rodneyp was saying, this wouldn’t affect your business since users would still pay for accounts.
Then a 3rd party client could be developed to at least send URLs to your server. For example, a client could be written that could use the ‘urlsnarf’ program on Linux, which is part of the dsniff package (http://monkey.org/~dugsong/dsniff/) to grab URLs and format them into the appropriate formats and send them to the CE server with the proper protocol.
I think your argument dealing with being able to remove CE on Linux “if you know your way around” isn’t a valid one. If CE developed Linux kernel extensions or developed a well-hidden daemon client to the point that if a user wants to uninstall it they would have to work quite hard, then so be it. If “you know your way around”, you can just re-install Windows to get off CE. There will always be a way around this, that’s why CE can’t be the final means for upholding integrity on the computer. There needs to be even a tiny amount of discipline by the user.
Hear hear, Brandon!
I agree with you quite a bit. It’s really the spirit of the thing – CE isn’t an end all, but just a tool. The real end all is Jesus Christ.
That being said, that is what I have been thinking – it doesn’t steal revenue for them. In fact, it might be more efficient because a Linux equivalent of CE would be community maintained instead of supported by CE staff and developers.
I’m looking to write up a community letter and send it to Covenant Eyes – here’s a thread about it – http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1267544.
@Nathaniel – Please send us any of your ideas about this. We’ve seen quite a few suggestions so far in the comments on this post, but the more input we get from Linux users, the more we can consider for the future. Thanks!
Will certainly do so. Thanks, too.
I was directed to this posting when I asked about a linux version. I have been impressed with most of the conversation. Building off of Nathaniel’s suggestions; have a group of community Linux programmers build the OS portion of the program and have CE build an API (application programming interface) that would allow the Linux program to pass information in a standard format to the CE servers and have CE on the back end handle the reporting. This would not expose the CE IP to the community while at the same time allow Linux users to avail themselves of the CE services. Thank you for all that you do.
There’s been a lot of work behind the scenes when it comes to developing a superior program like Covenant Eyes. I am both a Windows user and Linux user. I happen to find Linux to be almost a complete package for my uses, except for 2 things:
1. Games (Direct X9, 10 and so on)
2. Internet Accountability
The first one is self-explanatory; however, the second seems avoidable. I know a great project that many people have poured over called Net Responsibility has potential. The end-goal is the same: Breaking Free in a sex-saturated culture-Internet included. I am in favor of CE opening up some of its code for the greater good. The CE approach, being real-time, is just what Linux users need who are serious about accountability. Yes, I will continue to make use of CE on Windows-that’s including my active subscription. Now, howabout a little assist in the open source community.
Thank you, all who consider this endeavor!
Kirk (semijoyful)
I have used and greatly appreciated Covenant Eyes on both Windows and Mac systems. Linux is now my operating system of choice, and on which I spend the overwhelming majority of my computer time. This is made possible by the “Net Responsibility” accountability software project that a number of other people have already referred to.
None the less, nothing comes close to Covenant Eye’s analysis software and the clarity of the reports it produces. I would gladly pay for this service for my Linux boxes. Thus I strongly support the proposed solution which has evolved in this blog: that either Covenant Eyes open up it’s protocols for communicating with it’s servers or develop an API so an open source, community developed front end can pass raw usage data to CE’s excellent analysis software.
In this regard I read today that this is what Skype is planning to do on Linux:
From Slashdot:
“Linux: Skype For Linux To Be Open-Sourced “In the Nearest Future” on Monday November 02, @09:39AM
Posted by Soulskill on Monday November 02, @09:39AM”
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/11/02/1353245/Skype-For-Linux-To-Be-Open-Sourced-In-the-Nearest-Future
This is confirmed in the blog post by the Skype employee Berkus on Skype.com entitled “Skype open source”
http://share.skype.com/sites/linux/2009/11/skype_open_source.html
In the comments to the brief blog post we have
“You speak of an “open source UI”.
Does this mean that the protocol will remain closed ? (as most people predict)
Will it be possible to third-party clients to use this closed lib to support the skype protocol ?
Thanks to Joerg for the news ;)
ofaurax Monday, Nov 2
…..
@ofaurax You are correct on all points.
berkus Monday, Nov 2″
Martin
Hey all,
I touched on this in an earlier comment. I plan to use a Linux box, but have a Windows box running as my proxy server. On the Windows box I will install Covenant Eyes, and I will install a program from this site http://www.youngzsoft.net/ccproxy/ , so that it will serve as a gateway between the internet and my Linux box. This link here, http://www.tuxradar.com/answers/432 , has a couple tips on how to force internet traffic through a proxy. I have not tried them yet.
The only thing with this method is you would have to give your wife or someone else the root password to your Linux box so you could not change the settings.
Luke, your reply was gracious and professional. Jeff’s post was way out of line. You handled it well.
Some folks are just putting WAY too much pressure on CE about this Linux thing without showing gratitude for what they have already accomplished. Everyone probably knows this, but there are always ways to circumvent even the best accountability technology. If you WANT to sin, if you CHOOSE to sin, you’ll always find a way. Period. Besides, no computer program will protect you from Blockbuster stores, Barnes & Noble, magazine racks at the grocery stores, etc.
I’d like to see CE for Linux, too, and I’m sure they will produce it when feasible. In the meantime, you have to do whatever it takes to stay pure. Even if it means staying off certain computers or no Internet, etc. BTW thanks also for the iPhone App. Just downloaded that today.
Keep up the good work and the R&D on new platforms/devices. God bless you!
Well, I’ll have to say that I’ve read the criticism here concerning how I treated the very dedicated and understanding CE staff, and I hereby stand corrected. I’m sorry for all of my threats and my flaming words which were directed at CE; certainly they were undeserved by anyone, but especially since we are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. I have taken all of your kind and duly earned criticism to heart… hopefully we can put my UGLINESS behind us, and get on with solutions to the current issues. Additionally, it’s obvious from reading a few of the posts here on the CE blog that most of us realize what the problem is, and that it can ONLY be solved by Jesus Christ himself.
In that light, I do hope you will allow me to contribute to the discussion in a level-headed (and therefore constructive) manner in the future.
Finally, thanks so much to all the fine folks on this blog that have offered and continue to offer their valuable input about the subject of well, lets call it – “loophole” platforms that are not yet supported by CE, and I am grateful to God for the fact that my original set of letters, flames and all, have seemingly jump-started a discussion about some possible solutions.
Yes, happily, I AM and will continue to be a subscriber to the Covenant Eyes service…
In Christ,
Jeff Bayer
Hello,
I’m a 20 year old college student in a mechanical engineering university. I have 3 computers that all run linux. I am REQUIRED to run linux for class projects and such. I must run linux for it’s ability to easily connect to fpga’s, and other such micro-processors. Linux is used heavily for programming small systems. Linux is growing very rapidly and becoming more mainstream. Especially with the growing popularity of netbooks with the smaller resources. Windows takes a lot of system resources in comparison to linux, BSD, Fedora, Debian and other such UNIX based kernels. This makes linux almost required if you run computers with smaller processing capabilities (intel atom processors and such). Because these systems are basically purpose built to access the internet (hence the name: NETbook) they are so much more likely to be used to access pornography. I know that many of my college friends have these for the purpose of having easy internet access. This market for open-source based systems is growing rapidly. It will continue to grow with the introduction of 4G wireless networks built into computers. It will not be long before a linux based CE will be introduced because of the growing popularity of Linux.
I have found a project that was started as an open-source accountability software for the linux kernel. If you are knowledgeable about programming, and need a system, help out those who are working on the R&D right now.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=550287
Personally, I find these projects easier to work on if I am running linux. The fact that the kernel and other parts of the OS are open-source, makes the coding all that much easier. Programs like QT4 and many others, make the design of this system even easier yet. With automated installer design packages, this makes the implementation of the CE in a linux system easy to use for those that aren’t tech-savvy.
On another note, the only difference between open-source programs and non open-source programs, is the users ability to re-distribute the software. Just because a file is coded for windows in a PE or EXE, does not mean that the source code is not available. If you have the EXE and want the source code, disasemblers will extract the source code from the file. This is a legal issue, rather than a coding issue. with moderate modification, the windows CE can be used on linux based systems. The redistribution of the modified file is then illegal however. This is much like plagiarism.
We all need to understand that these programs will not stop us from sinning. Even on a windows based CE, we can get past it. I have done it. I have gotten past filtering that was run through off site servers such as WebSense. These programs only make sinning just that much harder. Our strength must be derived from Christ, and not our processors.
If you have linux and can’t stop sinning, delete your ethernet/wireless card drivers and use your computer strictly for offline purposes. If you still need the internet, go to the library.
If you need linux and the internet, go to a VERY public place and get on the internet.
Your brother in Christ,
Olav
I tend to agree with Olav on several points. At the risk of sounding pessimistic, the best that software like CovenantEyes can do is to put up enough of a barrier that that it takes some time to get past it, hopefully enough time that the user will be able to think about what he/she is doing before any damage is done. So I think software has its place (and CE is probably the best I’ve found yet) for users who have enough conscience to stop trying to bypass it once they’ve had a chance to think about it. If you really want to get around CE though, here’s how (I don’t think this is a big secret but no one here has mentioned it; if the moderator wants to edit out this part go ahead). Get ahold of a Linux CD, from a friend, from a store, or download an ISO at work. Most PCs will let you boot from a CD (if there’s a BIOS password you can usually use a jumper to clear it), then find a coffee shop with wifi, and do whatever you want. Or if you have plenty of money, just go to Wal-Mart and buy an iPod touch.
Mobility has always been an enemy of accountability, ever since the invention of the car (or maybe the saddle even). However, if you want to use Linux halfway safely, get a desktop PC (so it can’t be taken to a coffee shop) and get a home broadband filter like the one at http://www.familysafe.com/iboss_internet_parental_contro.html (sounds like a good concept, haven’t tried it myself, I’m just sticking with Windows, which isn’t all that bad imo).
I should add that I think accountability software for Linux still has its place in some situations; I have some limited experience with Linux but it would probably take me quite a while to get past accountability software, especially if I wanted to make sure I didn’t generate suspicious emails to an accountability partner. I think bootable Linux CDs are a bigger threat, and while CE can block downloading them (and probably is), that will only go so far, and a bootable Linux CD will boot almost any Windows PC and not leave a trace. Maybe CE needs to get into the firmware business and design a BIOS that won’t allow booting from Linux CDs, or partner with a PC manufacturer… Also there are certain PC brands and models that are known to be less Linux-friendly than others.
Hi! For those who are looking for internet accountability software for Linux, feel free to check out Net Responsibility at http://www.netresponsibility.com/ . Both the software and the website are currently in an ‘alpha’ state of development, so there are bugs, but the more users who begin trying it out, the quicker those bugs can be identified and eventually solved. The documentation part of the website is also being developed, with the goal to eventually have all of the currently relevant information from the Ubuntu Forums thread about Net Responsibility compiled there. An attempt is also being made to make the documentation friendly to those who are new to Linux/Ubuntu. Anyway, have a look, try out the software, and let us know what you think!
I would just like to echo Dustin’s post above. Net Responsibility (http://www.netresponsibility.com/) has been mentioned a number of times in the responses to this blog entry, but it is now at version 2.0 (although an alpha), rather than 0.5, and is quite a bit more capable than the earlier 0.5 version. Although a Covenant Eyes for Linux would be the best option due to its excellent analysis software and the clarity of the reports it produces, Net Responsibility has gotten quite a bit better.
The only thing keeping me from giving a concerted effort to make the switch from Windows to Linux is the lack of a version of Covenant Eyes for it. I can appreciate the logistical challenges associated with creating such a product, but I hope you guys can make it work. As some have observed here, it is ultimately a matter of devotion to Christ that keeps a man from sinning against Him. We are also taught to make no provision for the flesh to fulfil the lusts thereof, and Covenant Eyes is one way of obeying that command that I feel a little bit uncomfortable without. Thank you guys for the great software. If you start developing a Linux version, I’ll help beta test it!
I use debian linux and I do pay for various open-source software. I do sometimes buy the “non-free” version instead of the free version of software, too. In fact, I paid for the X3 Watch Pro instead of the free software. If X3 had accountability software that ran on linux, I would use it. Dansguardian is too easily disabled. I prefer a Zyxel Zywall over software anyway.
The big issue is not about how common Linux is or who is capable of using it…
Almost every major laptop manufacturer is currently developing “instant on” web access. That means with the click of a button on your new laptop you will be surfing the internet in under 5 seconds via a browser built on top of a linux platform (see splashtop as an example)
Now every WINDOWS user will now have his very own quick linux button that takes him to the internet bypassing CE and saying goodbye to accountability….this is a disaster.
If CE is going to have anything to do in the future its going to need to delevop a linux version that can somehow be used with this new upcoming and soon to be in every household technology
First of all, I want to thank Jeff Bayer (the Linux user referenced in the original post) for his humility and willingness to admit that the manner of his comment was wrong. I, for one, greatly appreciate it.
Secondly, I wanted to second Rohn’s experience with running CE on Wine on Linux. By the way Rohn, with PlayOnLinux you can simulate a Windows reboot, but it does not seem to help.
To the author/CE employee, the specific message is “Covenant Eyes has detected that our software has been removed form this computer. The software has been automatically re-installed. Your computer will be rebooted in 30 seconds.”
My question is, is there anything I can do to work around this. I’m hoping that maybe CE on Wine will work if not for this. Thanks,
@Chance – We’ll let you know if we need and help! Thanks.
Thanks @Martin for your heads-up on the Linux Button… had not heard of it.
Thanks also to @Chance for your kindness.
As for myself, I bought a new laptop, since my old one which was running Linux was giving hardware problems, and have decided to revert to a Windoze base system, with Ubuntu 10.04 running under VirtualBox to use for surfing the net. The combination seems to be adequately fast and since CE is running in the Windoze environment (and since the Windoze environment provides network access to anything running inside VirtualBox) it stands to reason that I am protected in any case by CE. This setup was suggested by someone previously, and my appreciation is to them, although it has been known all along….
I will put the rest of this comment in a separate comment so in case one of the moderators decides to kill one of my comments [as they have in the past] maybe this one won’t get killed with it.
-Jeff Bayer
Which leads to the original problem…. if you are running strictly Linux, there is NO CE protection. Problem not yet solved Luke. The clock is ticking….
I agree with this… you NEED LINUX SUPPORT! Major major issues and if your a computer guy that is where you will run! Please add this support!!!
Remember it’s still not guaranteed, since you can run a distro from a thumb drive or a CD. Basically, if CE was to be all reaching, it would be unacceptably invasive on the computer. Possibly even a route for malware.
I’ve often wondered if you couldn’t create something to run on a network router so as to avert this problem entirely (for some users).
@Nathaniel : Very true… but what we are asking for is for a CE version for Linux for those of us who need [or want] to use Linux and WANT to have accountability. You can’t plug a leaky USB port…
@Travis : Most routers have some filtering capability built-in, but I think you would have to port forward all internet activity to a directly connected computer running CE and then have all other computers get i-net access thru THAT computer (running CE) …. I’m pretty sure the basic concept would work, but then again, I’m not a network professional either.
@Luke Gilkerson : Thanks for unwinding me from the Akismet !! :)
Now that’s an interesting thought. I bet something could be constructed with a router that runs Linux based firmware.
Once again, not perfect, nothing can be IMHO. But interesting nonetheless.
@Nathaniel, @Jeff,
What I do at work is run Proxy+ (proxy server software) and Covenant Eyes from a Windows machine. I have my Linux box Firefox use my Windows IP/Port as the proxy connection as specified in Proxy+.
While my setup doesn’t force my Linux box to use the Proxy connection, I believe there are ways to do so.
This link talks about forcing web traffic through a proxy server:
http://www.tuxradar.com/answers/432.
Based on this, I see two primary solutions:
1) configuring your router so that all internet traffic flows through your windows box so you have to use the Proxy
2) Do something at the root level on your Linux box to forward traffic through the Windows box.
For some, giving someone else (your wife if married) sole root access to the Linux box is feasible (solution 1), for some, it is not. I like the router solution (sol’n 2)because that is not a password you need all the time, and if you do a hardware reset, your accountability partner would know based on the reset password.
FYI, OpenSuSE has a Proxy configuration in YaST that forces users to use a proxy.
Quick question, does anyone have experience with using visualization with CE? With Hyper-V on a Windows server, the physical NIC is set to use the Microsoft’s virtual switch stuff. Since this is running on the Windows machine, and everything goes through that virtual switch, will CE catch that traffic? Or will it only catch traffic through the synthetic NIC created for the host OS to use?
Hi Benjamin,
I know this is an old question, but I can actually answer it! I have the need to run Linux (Ubuntu) in a VM and unfortunately no, CE does not catch the traffic. The problem lies in how CE binds to the Windows Winsock interface. VMware notably, installs it’s own NIC interface, thereby bypassing the default Winsock interface, and CE is not bound to that interface, so it does NOT capture traffic. This causes problems for me because I need to use Linux in order to gain access to Raw sockets (which Windows 7 disables in the default winsock interface) in turn not logging any traffic and making the wife suspicious of my activities.
It appears, as others have suggested, that until CE develops a Linux version, we can use Net Responsbility. This is an ubuntu program (and will likely work in other distributions.) Hopefully, with my wifes support, I can install Ubuntu in a VM, install Net responsbility and be able to use the VM to gain access to raw socket support and be good to go. Hope this helps!
Another vote for CE on Linux.
Just a note on Net Responsibility for Linux. Although it is marked as “Alpha,” it is VERY stable, I have used it since I began running Linux a year ago, and have found it very easy to configure, simple to install and without problems. Check out http://www.netresponsibility.com. Covenant Eyes, I would recommend that you suggest Net Responsibility to Linux users, rather than Accountability Pro. Net Responsibility is in active development, is very fast to reply to bug reports, and is not bloated and doesn’t slow your computer down at all. It is not easy to get around, because, while you can use root permission (sudo) to kill the net-responsibility process, it reports this and includes this information in the report. As with all accountability software, it comes down to one’s heart. I know CE is great software for Windows, but since I prefer Linux, I highly recommend Net Responsibility. Check it out!
-Rohn (a member of the Net Responsibility development team)
I am simply commenting to add my support for a Linux version of CE. As has been said, I realize it is harder to provide adequate protection in Linux, and have zero knowledge base to offer any solutions on that. Just saying, if it existed, I would use it.
CE, thanks for being around to stop me when my flesh is weak.
Jeff
Dear CE Executive team,
I am the CTO of a large corporation and a men’s ministry leader. Linux is a major OS for a lot of “geeks” and it is used in many home across the globe. We need a company to step up to the plate and put something together for Linux.
I have offered to assist CE in writing a Linux solution. It even got to the point where I was asked to send my resume. After a phone discussion, it was ended when I said I could not relocate and they don’t do remote… I would still like to assist. I have been professionally writing Linux based software for over ten years. I also have some driver development experience. Us “geeks” need this. There is a potential byproduct to this… with Android running Linux at its core, understanding Linux may open the CE market to Android phone support. This a market that is growing fast!
Also, I understand the need for profits and at the same time I can’t help but to remember that while Jesus sacrificed for all He also sacrificed for the individual. Don’t leave us Linux guys out in the cold.
Surely this is going to be a CE killer?
http://www.splashtop.com/blog/
Instant access to the web – no windows, no reporting, no accountability!
I’ve commented several times on running Linux but using a Windows machine as a proxy server with Covenant Eyes installed. If people are interested in how I got this to work I’ve got a blog in which I can post the details. I probably will anyway, it’s just a matter of finding the time, but I will prioritize it if people are interested.
Since CE doesn’t seem to want to open anything up to the open source community, I’m wondering if, rather than being tied to the CE servers and technology, it might be worthwhile to develop an open source CE-style *server*, not just an open source client. Obviously this would have to be hosted somewhere, but maybe it’s the sort of thing that could be set up group by group, such that linux users could get together to run their own server, or the resident techie in a less technical group could set it up for their group. Such a setup would also not benefit from the database of questionable sites and ratings that CE has developed, but coupled with something like Dan’s Guardian, it might be better than nothing. At the very least it could compile a simple report of hits per domain, which if I’m not mistaken is all CE did when it started out. Would anyone be interested in joining me on such a project? I welcome any feedback.
I too am a linux guru and would like to see a product. I agree with a couple of previous posts that creating an API for authentication and the passing of visited websites would be all that would be required to allow for an open source solution. I’m not sure what backend you have, but in most languages there are really good tools to build out a robust, secure API. Please, please think about building out an api. The rest would be up to open source programmers, like myself.
Just switched to jolicloud, an OS that runs on linux, because my laptop is getting a little bit too junky for the more demanding windows 7. I will be using the ‘accountability pal’ program as advised by you guys, but it would be nice to get covenant eyes accessibility in the future as I intend to buy another computer.
thanks!
I’m right there with a lot of the people who have already commented, especially more recently. There were comments near the beginning of this thread mentioning that they know Linux will not overtake Windows as a primary operating system, and while that may remain true to the standard PC, it is moving toward not being true in general. More and more manufacturers are moving toward Ubuntu as a primary OS offering because it reduces the cost of the computer substantially, and as more and more tablets are coming out which don’t have the power to support a full Windows OS, they’re being pre-loaded with Linux distros. That said, even if CE can’t devote the resources to developing the software for this quickly growing market-share, as has already been said, there are plenty of us who would be willing to work to develop this application as part of the open-source community if given the tools from CE to do so.
I personally prefer Linux but don’t use it because of the lack of accountability, and I am a member of a college ministry consisting of over 1000 members, many of whom use CE, and quite a number of whom are computer guys (or girls) that would prefer to use Linux but won’t because of the lack of accountability available.
So again, even if you don’t have the resources available to develop this within your company, can you look at devoting the resources to develop the necessary API and release it to the open-source world to develop a solid offering of your software for the non-Windows/Mac people out there?
Since the release of Ubuntu 11.10, I have so much faith in linux as a Windows replacement that I have gone so far as to install Ubuntu on my wife’s laptop (with her own secret password), which has proven to run faster and offers a more secure web-surfing experience for her.
I would prefer to be using it myself, and therefore am casting my vote for a Covenant Eyes supported linux distro.
Thanks for doing this! :)
The netresponsibility (www.netresponsibility.com) software is making some great strides as of late. Previous versions only supported debian-based distros, but the newest development version is much more compatible with multiple versions of Linux. The progress on the latest development version is here (http://www.netresponsibility.com/forum/index.php?topic=46.0).
I agree with those who posted regarding the limited amount of Linux users. According to the w3schools website[1], in November of ’11 about 5.1% of internet goers used Linux. Mac users came in at 8.8%. So while there are more Mac users then Linux users. There are still many people who use a Linux Box as their gateway to the internet.
Regarding CE, the only reason that I don’t use it for my day to day internet usage is because I run Linux exclusively. I am a computer Engineering Student and I find that Linux runs faster and more stable then Windows. I wish that I could use CE, it is my only regret for using Linux.
I also realize however that the people who use Linux tend to be more computer savvy then the standard computer user. Ergo, more effort would be needed to prevent them from getting around the filter on their system.
I hope that CE is able to pursue developing CE for Linux but I understand why the cost in man hours may just be too great. I hope that they are able grow as a company as well! For now I will be limited to using the slightly disappointing Linux filtering software currently available.
In Christ,
Seth
[1] Accessed December 2011, Available at “http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp”
I would love to have a linux version of CE… The VAST majority of my work is done on a computer running linux… Surely, hiring a couple of linux programmers would be worth the time and effort…
I think I found away around CE not being Linux compatable. I installed Sun/Oracle’s VirtualBox on my Windows 7 machine and then installed Ubuntu because GDL (GNU Data Language) isn’t available for Windows and I do a lot of scientific programming and have lost my MatLab liscence when I graduated. I had intended to just shut down the network access for the virtual machine that Ubuntu runs in but I was updating it and in a search I hit the CE firewall! I was surprised but I thought I’d share it as a way to install CE and have it filter Linux’s internet connection.
http://www.virtualbox.org
Random thought after I pressed the submit button on my previous comment, I wonder if you could run a Windows VirtualBox and have it filter Linux as the hose. I don’t want to do so with my machine but some of the other Linux users out there might give it a go. Maybe CE could even develop a secure installation based on VirtualBox without the ability to censor it’s permissions to the host Linux install.
I’m sure that if someone really wanted to get around it they could since both Linux and the VirtualBox are open source but those people I’m sure will get around anything standing between them and thier goal.
@Will Sanders, yes you can do the windows-on-virtualbox thing, I’ve done it with some limited success. I set up analogproxy on the windows machine running CE, then pointed my browser’s http proxy settings on linux to it. It works, but not as well as you might think.
But I don’t think this is the real answer anyway… for one thing what about multiple CE users? I’m not the only user on my system, I have a multi-seat Ubuntu 10.04 setup where my son and I work the same machine at the same time with dumb terminals.
The multi-user thing is also a problem with the notion of router-based CE setups. Somehow the router needs to do VPN auth or some such, to be able to track separate user accounts.
I think the real answer is for CE to open their API and allow other software to be built on top of it. By “open” I don’t mean free, you would still need a paid account and use Oauth or similar to authenticate to it.
I’m actually interested in doing this. Any helpful details for running Windows 7 on VirtualBox with Linux as the host? Thanks,
Please develop CE for Linux. It may be hard to believe now but I can see Linux taking off in a big way over the next few years. As a beginning IT professional who struggles with internet pornography the only thing preventing me from advancing my career in Linux related education and practice is the lack of real accountability software for Linux.
I would love to see this on linux as I use linux, windows, and mac. Just throwing it out there that I would download and install it on my linux box.
I presently run Windows 7 & Ubuntu on the same computer. Obviously CE does not work for Linux-based systems but I had one thought on the matter:
Is there a way for CE to flag the websites for Linux-based operating systems? I installed Ubuntu from the official website (I know this is not the only way to install a Linux-OS). Since it is a safe & clean website it was never captured in the accountability reports. My thought is that if it generates at least a low-priority flag in the reports this could result in a conversation with your accountability partner(s): “Why are you installing Linux?”
Obviously privacy is a concern – but anyone who installs CE is willing to sacrifice some privacy because the very nature of the program is intrusive. Accountability is the strongest aspect to CE and this might be a way to include the ‘Linux Question’ in the process.
Thoughts?
Dan, great thought! I’ll pass your comment on to our Rating Team.
I would love to see this on Linux (Ubuntu) I have read through much of the discussion and as usual those who don’t use Linux don’t understand. Free is a very bad English word. My son who is a web-developer and big promoter of “Free Software” prefers to explain it to mono-lingualists as follows. Software should be “Free” as in Libre but does not need to be “Free” as in “Gratis” Though it is true that many people would not refuse “Free of charge” software the key is that the use is open which is the strong backbone on which Linux distributions are based on. This allows the entire community to contribute and has resulted in a software that is robust and very quickly fixes when there is bugs. This would actually reduce your overhead and not increase it as well as making it more efficient and savy as you would have a whole community of input. You may not even have to develop the software in Linux but simply by releasing it would allow others to work on it and thus give you feedback and most likely develop a version for you depending on your willingness.
As for me I would also like to see a Linux version of CE. In our family of 5 none of us use Windows exclusively having Windows VMs on our laptops. Though my wife, son, media-center and NAS all use Ubuntu exclusively. In the Christian community the change is now being driven also by economics. Several mission organizations like SIL, Wycliffe bible Translators and others issue only Linux based software and I noticed at our last mission’s conference (we are with an organization other than SIL) 3 out of 10 were running Ubuntu. Linux is kinda like a cloud in the forest, you don’t see it until you get out of the forest.
Thanks for your efforts, I hope we will see you joining the growing cloud of Linux software developers.
First of all, let me briefly thank you for the following things; 1) Thank you for caring enough to help people keep Job’s covenant. 2) Thank you for a genuine, gracious, concerned, and open response to this complaint. 3) Thank you for offering a solution based on what you know is available (Accountability Pal). With that said, please consider my take on the matter:
1) I don’t think Linux will ever have a huge popularity as far as overall “market” share (of course it’s open source).
2) However, those of us who simply can’t deal with buggy Windows anymore and won’t shell out money for Macs still need accountability.
3) For that reason, I’m sad CE doesn’t have anything for a Linux platform. I understand as written in another comment that it would likely never be “profitable.”
4) I would offer this suggestion: Perhaps, even in light of CE’s commitment to excellence, you may be willing to still offer a “half-baked” (as you called it) product that would at least provide some accountability to us. A) Of course it wouldn’t be uncircumventable, and B) It will still take resources to develop and maintain, likely at some extent of a loss. However, it would be sufficient for “some” who just want their friends to hold them accountable for their browsing, and there could certainly be ways of recouping most of the cost while providing a service that would be better than nothing.
Again, thank you for providing Accountability Pal as a suggestion. I still hope CE might consider my request, because to me it lets me know that while the product won’t be perfect, at least it is designed by a team of your ability and integrity. Thanks again for your genuine care.
Josh
By “profitability” I am talking not just about Covenant Eyes’ coffers. Our members don’t profit either, which is our main concern. If we don’t spend our limited resources doing the most good for the most number of people—for instance, making our iPhone app work better, or improving our Windows and Mac services to keep up with the rapid pace of technology changes, or developing a Mac filter—then many, many people lose out. Believe me, I’m an idealist at heart: I want to be able to say we could develop anything for anyone in need. But realistically we need to target the area where accountability is needed by the large majority of people.
That said, the more we develop and improve our current services, we create building blocks for different platforms. Each time we start a new project, we keep in mind how each thing we do will impact future possibilities—and that includes a Linux version.
Thanks for your suggestion. I will certainly pass it along to our developers.
As a website developer I would like to use CE on a Ubuntu machine. I will continue to research using a Ubuntu virtual machine based on Windows to run CE. I will stay tuned for updates from CE.
We have five computers in our house and two smartphones. I have retired my preferred linux machine to the garage awaiting a usable CE-type program for linux. Until then, many thanks to CE for the current Mac, Android and Windows applications.
DansGuardian, linked in an earlier response is still active, and works as a filter for Linux. However, I have found OpenDNS to be an OS agnostic, server-based filter that works fairly well. Although it is circumventable, “going around” it is made harder by my home’s Internet router password being set to 30 random characters that I didn’t save anywhere and by my wife setting the password to OpenDNS. (This also gives my wife access to every site visited in the home, and the ability to add exceptions as needed.)
For accountability: Accountability Pal doesn’t seem to be in active development, but Net-Responsibility seems to be, is open source, and has a binary for Ubuntu. http://www.netresponsibility.com/index.php
Ultimately, it is the addict’s willingness to have regular open conversations and prayer with a confidant/fellow-soldier that will make the difference. Everything else is hurdles to be circumvented by the desperate (depraved) mind.
I wish there was a linux version of Covenant Eyes. Net Responsibility works good, but does not generate a very good report the way that Covenant Eyes does.
If you were to develop for one distribution, it might be hard, but you could do it. You just put out the source. Or if you want to put it out for the biggest distribution right now, that would probably be Ubuntu or Debian, followed by Fedora Core or Red Hat. I don’t know all the work involved, but I would pay for the service.
On my laptop, I have a windows partition and a linux partition, but I use the linux partition 99% of the time. It would be good to have that there. I think people buy macintoshes because of the things that Linux offers for free, but that is my opinion.
But to all the people who want a linux version of this software, I think that we are actually out of the league of a marketable audience.
What I mean by that, is that if you run Linux, that means you have already gone against the norm, swam up the stream if you will, and discovered the fresh waters.
This means you know what a Live CD is. You know how to make a bootable flash drive (probably). And the whole thing is pointless at that point.
You use linux to get away from Windows and Macs. If you had an accountability software on your linux machine, all you would have to do is make a little flash drive bootable version of Linux, and boot it up. No one would ever know you did it. You know that is true too.
So the whole thing is that accountability needs to be from within for you. Linux users are outside of the scope of this realm. I use net responsibility, but I know how to get around it with ease (if I want to). You just need to realize that you need to be responsible to God, and stop this toying around. I know I need to do the same.
Thank you and God bless.
One more comment. I think that the Linux community wants this software just because it wants to try to figure out how to get around it.
Can I add another request for some kind of solution for Linux?
Even something like a simple browser plug-in would, while certainly not un-circumventable, at least give us something as a stop-gap measure while waiting for a more thorough solution.
Either that or publish information on how to talk to your server, and let the open-source community put something together.
As a programmer, I have many friends within my church who find a need to run a Linux or Unix based platform on their computer. This is fine for those who have a Mac, but for those who don’t have the money to spend on a Mac, running Ubuntu on PC is the other option. CE on Ubuntu would be great, especially now that CE is on all other major platforms!
At various points we’ve investigated proxy-based and router-based solutions, but at the moment I don’t have anything definitive to say about either possibility. My best suggestion to you right now is that you head over to our community-powered help forum and put in a vote for it.
I also love see covenant eyes for linux aswell
A Linux version could be incredibly productive project. I understand the implications of trying to create software to run on an operating system that isn’t universally managed. However: the three most popular distributions, according to http://distrowatch.com/, are Mint, Ubuntu, and Debian. The first two are based on the third, and all use the Debian Package system, making installation just as easy as on a Windows or Mac OS computer. Ubuntu and Mint users even have a special software store, similar to an “App Store” on phones or Apple computers to be able to find and download the program. Just an idea, simple to do since Mac and Linux both have similar backbones.
I just seriously dislike having to pay Micros… well… those guys… for software that doesn’t work very well, and I’d love to return to my native platform.
If you had a Linux port or something I could run at the router level of the network I would have said “Shutup and take my money”, but till then I will have to look at other options. But as soon as you do have something like that I would be one of the first in line to buy!
I am a current covenant eyes customer on my two Win7 machines,have been for years. Lot of talk here about covenant eyes needing to be some impenetratable wall. Like the person stated above..USB stick and your on your way to where ever you want to go. BUT what if some of us linux users(2 in my house) just simply WANT to make ourselves accountable? Is the only answer go fork out $100’s to M$ for their clunky OS or hack/steal a copy?? Or is it to sell my first born to purchase/maintain an APPLE product,just so I can be accountable to someone? Is making a linux port REALLY that hard now days?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proprietary_software_for_Linux
Please just do this now because with over 75 MILLION users as of this posting,linux is never going away. Thanks.
Hello Dustin,
We hear your (and others) desire for accountability on Linux loud and clear. Unfortunately, with Linux being such an open and varying system (numerous flavors of linux), the time and resources needed to develop and secure Covenant Eyes would likely require halting development on other platforms. With Linux making up roughly 1.5-2.5% OS marketshare (depending on which stats you prefer to cite), it’s just not option for us at the moment.
I too would like Covenant Eyes for my Linux machines. I’m 100% Windows right now, and I would like to migrate to Linux but I really want to take Covenant Eyes with me. If I can find a suitable alternate, I’ll be cancelling my covenant eyes subscription. You guys make a GREAT product and should open it up to all the operating systems!
Hey Kurt,
This topic comes up frequently and we definitely hear the desire loud and clear. I hate to sound like a broken record but at this time, we are not in a place where dedicating the time and resources required to develop for Linux makes sense. I do hope that this changes in the future but there are no current plans to develop for Linux.
I am another user interested in CE for Linux, and have several thoughts on this subject.
– Most Linux users at this time are likely to be significantly more knowledgable about computers than an “average” Mac or Windows user.
– An average Linux tinkerer (such as myself) has sudo access on their system. Such a user, if inclined, would likely be resourceful enough to come up with numerous methods of circumventing almost any filtering or accountablility software via a number of routes. I can think of at least three completely different approaches off the top of my head.
– Many Linux users have at least some experience programming and network administration.
– Accountability does not work well when a user does not want to be accountable.
I mention these things to make the following point: any attempt to force compliance with the accountability plan upon an administrative user via technical means will not work.
Instead of trying to build a foolproof system, here are a few ideas…
– Create an API and command line interface to interact with the Covenant Eyes daemon.
– The daemon would monitor internet usage, command line history, system logs, and possibly even keylog to look for suspicious activity.
– Some of the lower-level operations of CE could probably be ported from the Mac version.
– The GUI component could be implemented in Qt or GTK, and it would probably work in the most common desktop environments (KDE, Gnome, MATE, Cinnamon, Unity, LXDE, XFCE, …) out of the box.
If all of that sounds like too much, here is another potential solution: make the browser extension accessible to Linux users. Yes, it is very simplistic and easy to work around, but that is where the accountability partner fills in. I tell my him about the holes I find.
The relationship between a user and their accountability partner should be based upon mutual trust. In that context, Covenant Eyes is merely a tool that makes you think twice before looking where you shouldn’t and that God can still see what you are doing.
Any chance of even something like a simple browser plugin for Chrome and/or Firefox?
That wouldn’t be totally bulletproof, but people in the linux world generally know how to get around something if they really want to anyway, and it would give us something of a stop-gap measure while waiting for if/when a better solution comes along.
I know that this topic started in 09, and therefor, I give a little grace. There, I gave it. Now for the real deal. Convenant Eyes has made a version for Android. Now, let’s stop right there. What is Android based on? Anyone? OK, it’s based off the Linux Kernel. Let’s let that sink in for a little bit. If they have a version for Android, a version for Windows and Mac, then they can make one for linux. I love linux because of two things: freedom and choice. Freedom to make the GUI (or not) look like what I want at that moment. Choice of what software does and does not get installed. Also, freedom to pay for software or not.
But until this happens, I have to use Windows. I want to be free from porn, and if this means sacrificing my rights to comfort, so be it.
Hello Ezra,
Thank you for your informative feedback. The freedom and choice you have with the Linux software is the reason why we do not have Covenant Eyes software for it. With an open source operating system we cannot confidently say that Covenant Eyes will continue to work after changes to the OS are made. Even a slight change can effect Covenant Eyes, and if that were to happen there is no alert that can be or will be sent to an accountability partner. The difference with Android is that it is a much more stable operating system that is mainly controlled by Google. It’s not that we can’t develop software for Linux, it’s just that the nature of the operating system is not conducive to ensure the stability and security of the Covenant Eyes program. I congratulate you on your desire to be free from porn even in the absence of comfort.
Best regards,
Annelise
There seems to be a misunderstanding about how linux works. As long as the program doesn’t use any linux code then Covenant Eyes should absolutely be able to provide their program compatible and closed source for linux distributions. With this it is likely that they will only be able to provide their service to debian as it is the most used and most compatible library amongst the different distributions of linux.
I believe someone at Covenant eyes should maybe do some research into making the program compatible with linux without open sourcing the code, maybe perhaps even hiring a linux specialized programmer to assist in the project and upkeep as well.
FYI, Linux distributions have extended support in their development to make sure nothing major changes within the confines of that extended support so that any program that works on it now will also work on it within its range of support, making the program relatively easy to keep up on latest linux versions.
I would also like to see Linux support. I got a subscription from my church and am rather regretting doing so (though I suppose I can still use it on my Amazon Fire). You would not need to open-source your software. I would suggest that all you need to do is to recruit a developer who is able to port the software to the Linux desktop. However you may not consider it profitable to do this :( Still, would be good to see it happen.
There are four apps on that list (in this article) for the addict. Net Responsibility – which was last updated years ago – Pluckeye – which doesn’t do accountability, though they have a webpage on how to get that with a combination of software (including stale software) – Accountable2You, which is not free and given I have now paid for Covenant Eyes… – accountabilitypal, also outdated (last updated 12 years ago).
Linux would definitely rock. I’ll look for a more up-to-date list than the one to which you’ve linked.
+1 for linux