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	<title>Comments on: Why Some Christians Dislike Covenant Eyes (Part 2)</title>
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	<link>http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/05/09/why-some-christians-dislike-covenant-eyes-part-2/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on Pornography Addiction, Removing Online Temptation, and the Need for Accountability.</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Scrabeck</title>
		<link>http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/05/09/why-some-christians-dislike-covenant-eyes-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-3147</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Scrabeck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/?p=233#comment-3147</guid>
		<description>Good thoughts gentlemen!  One of the things I like about CE is that it helps people see the need for the battle for purity to be done in intimate community with other redeemed warriors of Christ!  As Tim said, having CE or any filter is not the answer and must go deeper than just having a filter or a &quot;cop&quot; to check up on me. It is one of the steps in the process of teaching people to continually work out their salvation!  Sexual purity is a huge part of that and CE helps point people in this direction I think.

Paul Scrabeck
Men&#039;s Offensive Coach
Lust Free LIving</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts gentlemen!  One of the things I like about CE is that it helps people see the need for the battle for purity to be done in intimate community with other redeemed warriors of Christ!  As Tim said, having CE or any filter is not the answer and must go deeper than just having a filter or a &#8220;cop&#8221; to check up on me. It is one of the steps in the process of teaching people to continually work out their salvation!  Sexual purity is a huge part of that and CE helps point people in this direction I think.</p>
<p>Paul Scrabeck<br />
Men&#8217;s Offensive Coach<br />
Lust Free LIving</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Enos</title>
		<link>http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/05/09/why-some-christians-dislike-covenant-eyes-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2934</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Enos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/?p=233#comment-2934</guid>
		<description>&quot;Give a man a fish, and he&#039;ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he&#039;ll have food for a lifetime.&quot; ... or something like that.

Having CE is analogous to &quot;giving a man a fish&quot; here. It is something he needs _now_. If he is going to live long enough to learn how to fish, he first needs to make it through the day.

Becoming sanctified is indeed a life-long process (loosely analogous to &quot;teaching a man to fish&quot;). This and having CE are not mutually exclusive.  Put another way, there&#039;s not an XOR between the two.

For me (and likely others), having CE has forced me to become more accountable to brothers in Christ. This accountability has engendered some tough questions, which have in turn forced me to face my depravity and driven me more to God in prayer, and the reading of His word.

As sanctification continues, the internal struggle between the new man and old man intensifies. As the avenues by which I can indulge my sexual sin decrease in number, the pressure increases to find new (to me) alternates. On the other hand, my desire to be pure is also increasing. The accountability that was once completely anathema to me is now almost as natural as breathing. More and more often, that accountability is proactive (meaning sometimes I seek help _before_ I act out).

In a perfect world, we would just be binary about sin (i.e. &quot;I want to do this thing, but I know it is a sin, so I will not do it.&quot;... then not do it). In the real world, we are anything but binary. This same struggle was experienced by the apostle Paul (Rom 7:14-25).

While CE is but a weapon in the arsenal in the war against this sin, it is an effective one. Although my accountability partners and I do not often see each other in person, we are still &quot;brothers in the struggle&quot;. Via CE (and other means, but this is about CE) I have a cord of five strands (Ecc 4: 9-12). In the rare instances that I have fallen, each of these brothers has known it and were there to pick me up.

In summation, CE is not meant to be a substitute for sanctification. Rather, it is a vehicle by which you get on the road.

grace and peace,

Tim Enos
Pr 28:13</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Give a man a fish, and he&#8217;ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he&#8217;ll have food for a lifetime.&#8221; &#8230; or something like that.</p>
<p>Having CE is analogous to &#8220;giving a man a fish&#8221; here. It is something he needs _now_. If he is going to live long enough to learn how to fish, he first needs to make it through the day.</p>
<p>Becoming sanctified is indeed a life-long process (loosely analogous to &#8220;teaching a man to fish&#8221;). This and having CE are not mutually exclusive.  Put another way, there&#8217;s not an XOR between the two.</p>
<p>For me (and likely others), having CE has forced me to become more accountable to brothers in Christ. This accountability has engendered some tough questions, which have in turn forced me to face my depravity and driven me more to God in prayer, and the reading of His word.</p>
<p>As sanctification continues, the internal struggle between the new man and old man intensifies. As the avenues by which I can indulge my sexual sin decrease in number, the pressure increases to find new (to me) alternates. On the other hand, my desire to be pure is also increasing. The accountability that was once completely anathema to me is now almost as natural as breathing. More and more often, that accountability is proactive (meaning sometimes I seek help _before_ I act out).</p>
<p>In a perfect world, we would just be binary about sin (i.e. &#8220;I want to do this thing, but I know it is a sin, so I will not do it.&#8221;&#8230; then not do it). In the real world, we are anything but binary. This same struggle was experienced by the apostle Paul (Rom 7:14-25).</p>
<p>While CE is but a weapon in the arsenal in the war against this sin, it is an effective one. Although my accountability partners and I do not often see each other in person, we are still &#8220;brothers in the struggle&#8221;. Via CE (and other means, but this is about CE) I have a cord of five strands (Ecc 4: 9-12). In the rare instances that I have fallen, each of these brothers has known it and were there to pick me up.</p>
<p>In summation, CE is not meant to be a substitute for sanctification. Rather, it is a vehicle by which you get on the road.</p>
<p>grace and peace,</p>
<p>Tim Enos<br />
Pr 28:13</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/05/09/why-some-christians-dislike-covenant-eyes-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2112</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 16:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/?p=233#comment-2112</guid>
		<description>Luke, Thanks. I agree about the onion analogy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luke, Thanks. I agree about the onion analogy.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Gilkerson</title>
		<link>http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/05/09/why-some-christians-dislike-covenant-eyes-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2110</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Gilkerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 14:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/?p=233#comment-2110</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the thoughts, Rex. I really do see what you mean and it was from reading thoughts like yours that prompted me to write the post.

I have seen some who, in my opinion, fall under the &quot;the filter is their god&quot; category, but most that I have seen who use a filter are (a) protecting their children, or (b) using a filter as a part of their strategy to avoid pornography.

When it comes to taking away the idols from our midst, we are all in process of that. The patriarch Jacob would have many encounters with God before he would finally bury his idols, and a few more experiences before he started called God &quot;My God.&quot; 

Don&#039;t get me wrong: I&#039;m a big advocate of selling out to God 100% and laying down all of our idols. I do believe, however, that our hearts are like onion layers. Many, many times our own motives are hidden even to us. God faithfully sanctifies us by pealing away each layer and revealing the secret motives and intentions of the heart. He is the Lord who sanctifies.

I do hope that all who use a filter are also simultaneously allowing God to search the depths of their heart and bring real healing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thoughts, Rex. I really do see what you mean and it was from reading thoughts like yours that prompted me to write the post.</p>
<p>I have seen some who, in my opinion, fall under the &#8220;the filter is their god&#8221; category, but most that I have seen who use a filter are (a) protecting their children, or (b) using a filter as a part of their strategy to avoid pornography.</p>
<p>When it comes to taking away the idols from our midst, we are all in process of that. The patriarch Jacob would have many encounters with God before he would finally bury his idols, and a few more experiences before he started called God &#8220;My God.&#8221; </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong: I&#8217;m a big advocate of selling out to God 100% and laying down all of our idols. I do believe, however, that our hearts are like onion layers. Many, many times our own motives are hidden even to us. God faithfully sanctifies us by pealing away each layer and revealing the secret motives and intentions of the heart. He is the Lord who sanctifies.</p>
<p>I do hope that all who use a filter are also simultaneously allowing God to search the depths of their heart and bring real healing.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/05/09/why-some-christians-dislike-covenant-eyes-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-2093</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 15:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/?p=233#comment-2093</guid>
		<description>I appreciate this perspective very much. I am probably not a Christian by your definition but I am a believer in Jesus Christ and a Christian by my definition. I&#039;m a Latter-day Saint. I operate resources for Latter-day Saints who struggle with sexual and pornography addictions.

I&#039;ve never advocated for or against filters except that I&#039;ve always felt that people who say to me that they bought a filter were headed for trouble. To me, nothing short of the saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ can, with any reliability, keep a pornography addict away from it. I saw in many cases where my fears were justified. 

People who rely on filters fail in many ways, because they must fail if the filter has become their god. It does set up a mindset that wants to see how clever one is in circumventing the filter. Others just find other, less safe ways of getting their pornography, like going to bookstores. I&#039;ve seen many go from merely looking a little on the web, to getting a filter, to exploring bookstores, to getting involved with others at bookstores, to adultery, to destruction of marriage and family.

None of this do I blame on filter software. All worship of false gods results in hell, whether here or hereafter.

But then, I started seeing a few have success when using a filter. I started to look at why. As wonderful as I think my advice tends to be, some were actually finding healing from the pornography problems with a filter as part of their strategy.

As I talked to them and got to know more, I realized that for them, the filter was only a way to buy time to foster their relationship with Jesus Christ. They recognized that a filter could not save them, but it could be a good resource as long as it was not relied on (worshipped). 

Now, I recommend a filter as a temporary method, a way of getting the idol out from under the tent (Joshua 7). For me, the difference is that some people use a filter as a tool and some people use it as an idol. We all use tools: clothing, cars, appliances, utensils, homes, computers, and filters. Worship any of these things and they will become your god. Just because I drive my car to church doesn&#039;t mean I&#039;m worshipping it. A lot of people do worship cars and will perish with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate this perspective very much. I am probably not a Christian by your definition but I am a believer in Jesus Christ and a Christian by my definition. I&#8217;m a Latter-day Saint. I operate resources for Latter-day Saints who struggle with sexual and pornography addictions.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never advocated for or against filters except that I&#8217;ve always felt that people who say to me that they bought a filter were headed for trouble. To me, nothing short of the saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ can, with any reliability, keep a pornography addict away from it. I saw in many cases where my fears were justified. </p>
<p>People who rely on filters fail in many ways, because they must fail if the filter has become their god. It does set up a mindset that wants to see how clever one is in circumventing the filter. Others just find other, less safe ways of getting their pornography, like going to bookstores. I&#8217;ve seen many go from merely looking a little on the web, to getting a filter, to exploring bookstores, to getting involved with others at bookstores, to adultery, to destruction of marriage and family.</p>
<p>None of this do I blame on filter software. All worship of false gods results in hell, whether here or hereafter.</p>
<p>But then, I started seeing a few have success when using a filter. I started to look at why. As wonderful as I think my advice tends to be, some were actually finding healing from the pornography problems with a filter as part of their strategy.</p>
<p>As I talked to them and got to know more, I realized that for them, the filter was only a way to buy time to foster their relationship with Jesus Christ. They recognized that a filter could not save them, but it could be a good resource as long as it was not relied on (worshipped). </p>
<p>Now, I recommend a filter as a temporary method, a way of getting the idol out from under the tent (Joshua 7). For me, the difference is that some people use a filter as a tool and some people use it as an idol. We all use tools: clothing, cars, appliances, utensils, homes, computers, and filters. Worship any of these things and they will become your god. Just because I drive my car to church doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m worshipping it. A lot of people do worship cars and will perish with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Angela</title>
		<link>http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/05/09/why-some-christians-dislike-covenant-eyes-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1669</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/?p=233#comment-1669</guid>
		<description>This is a great explanation of the two perspectives and a non-judgmental perspective. Thank you for clarifying this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great explanation of the two perspectives and a non-judgmental perspective. Thank you for clarifying this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Echo_ohcE</title>
		<link>http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/2008/05/09/why-some-christians-dislike-covenant-eyes-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1544</link>
		<dc:creator>Echo_ohcE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 01:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/?p=233#comment-1544</guid>
		<description>Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said.</p>
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